Help me decide on a first frog?

[datawog]

I'm in the process of planting my 30g hex, and hopefully have it up and running as a frog terrarium in a couple months, but I'm still not sure which kind of frog I want to get. Which will also impact the final terraforming of the terrarium, since if I go for reed frogs I'll only need a pool of water big enough for them to sit in, but if I get big-eyed tree frogs I'll need to make 1/3 of the tank water and make it slightly deeper too. It's so hard to decide.... I'm so used to setting up community aquariums with my fish that having to devote myself to choosing only 1 species for an entire tank is.... a different experience for me. I'm looking at all sorts of frogs, the only thing I know that I want is a frog that is more arboreal than terrestrial (because of the tall tank), and reasonably small (so I can get a few), but other than that my options are wide open.

I've been looking at painted reed frogs (the first ones I saw, and the 'Awwwwww' factor made me want to get into frogs in the first place), which I like because of their small size (I don't know how many I could keep in a 30g, but a fair amount compared to larger frogs) but I'm concerned their call may be a bit high pitched and a group of males would keep me up at night.

Red-eye tree frogs I've been looking at, both because of their markings and their call, but according to the frog lady at my pet store they've been having trouble getting good stock (lots of fatalities in the store... she gets all of her reptiles from captive breeders {win!} so it's not because of fragility associated with being wild-caught) so she hasn't carried them in quite a while. I could get them, but it would be iffy. And aside from the health issue, they're rather large compared to all of the other frogs I'm looking at and I think I would feel bad keeping a frog capable of jumping several meters in a tank only two feet wide.

American green tree frogs.... cute little frogs, with a small croak. One thing that's making me lean towards them is they're pretty inexpensive compared to some of the others. They're probably second or third on my list.

Big-eyed tree frogs, the biggest frog I'm seriously considering. I've heard their croak and it doesn't seem too loud (my mom thinks it sounds like a cat, I think I agree), honestly the sound makes me laugh, and I think they're pretty cute looking. I also thought the white's tree frogs were really cute, but I really don't like their croak so they're out. These guys also get a benefit because they're pretty inexpensive as well, around $15 each where the reed frogs are $36. Dart and mantella frogs I decided against because they retail at around $200 each in my area. I don't really want to spend any more than $40 per frog. I suppose I could mail-order them, but I don't like the idea of putting them through all the stress of shipping. Though I guess they're shipped to the pet store anyways.... maybe if anyone knows a reputable frog breeder online that deals in captive-bred frogs (very important to me nothing is wild-caught) then I could consider going that method.

I've also been thinking about getting bird poop frogs, but I have found only 1 so-so clip of what they sound like and I really don't want to get a bunch, only to have them all become sexually mature and start making too much noise to bear. I was thinking about getting white's tree frogs or milk frogs, but after hearing their calls I figured I didn't want such noisemakers in my living room, so hearing their call before getting them is important to me so I don't wind up having to rehome them a year down the road so I can get a night's sleep.

How many of each frog would I be able to keep? They're going to be kept in a well planted terrarium (large spider plant, large 18" jade plant to climb on, if I can track down info on toxicity I may or may not add an aloe and christmas cactus, plus any plants I get in the future like bromeliads, vines or orchids) with a waterfall/river pouring into a larger pool. I figured if I kept Reed frogs I could keep maybe 8, or even 10? I read somewhere that with big eyed tree frogs you could keep 4 or 5 in a 10g.... would that mean I could keep 12-15 in a 30g? That sounds like an awful lot to me, considering their size. I'd be a lot more comfortable with 6 or 7. For red eyed tree frogs I figured 2, no more than 3.... it just doesn't seem big enough for any more than that. If that. I'm really not sure about keeping them, they seem too big for my tank.... 50-80g seems more appropriate for them.

I've also heard from a few sources that green anoles and house geckos can be kept with certain frogs. I know that big-eyed tree frogs are one of the ones included in that group, but can any of the smaller ones live with them? I wouldn't mind an anole or two running around in the daytime while the frogs are hunkered down until night. As long as no harm will come to either anole or frog, naturally.

[En333]

Well serioisly not all frogs croak constantly and I don't think that should be your big problem. Whites tree frogs are fun, hardy, and not to loud. They are great beginner frogs. It just depends on what ou like...

[datawog]

I did think the white's were awfully cute, but they have a pretty loud croak and if I had 2 males that felt the need to compete for a female I think they would easily keep me up. Even if they don't sound all the time, I'm not the greatest sleeper and a couple croaks could wake me up, but with a smaller frog like the american green it's more of a chirping noise that I would enjoy listening to and almost use as a sort of lullaby. I've listened to wild frogs at night and enjoyed it, but larger toad calls I find unpleasant.

Plus, I love tiny things. My favorite fish (that I breed because I love them so much) are less than 1" long. I first saw the reed frogs and that got me into getting frogs, I'm looking at ones that are slightly larger but my real passion is with the little ones. I'd prefer to get frogs that are less than 2" long, though I'm extending that slightly to consider big-eyes (because they're cute with a funny croak) and red-eyes (because they're gorgeous with a really nice croak).

[En333]

Then I would probably suggest the green tree frog.... But hey I mean it's up to you!

[kueluck]

What about the Pacific Tree Frog? I think they are one of the cutiest little tree frogs.
Pacific Tree Frog

[En333]

Yes! They are one of my favorite frogs! I can find them sometimes in my backyard. I live in WA btw

[datawog]

I am very, very tempted by the red-eyes because of how pretty they are.... maybe I can find an alternate breeder to supply me, or just hope for the best with the store. But I'm really not sure about the size of the tank.... I know you can apparently keep one in 10 gallons, but it still seems just so small... I don't think I would even put a fish that big in there. Maybe once I get it down from the shed and start working on the false bottom, get a better feel for how big it is, I might re-evaluate.... maybe ask around about red-eye owners and how they act in their tanks...

I really have no idea why I'm so concerned about this. I trust the suggested tank size for fish all the time, I'm guessing that people have come to the conclusion that red-eyes can and will do just fine in a 10g, so I should be able to trust it. It just seems so tiny for me, for something that can cover a distance twice the length of my tank in a single leap.

It's a good thing I've got a long time before I'm ready for frogs, because it's probably gonna be a while before I decide on one. I just found out about the clown tree frog, which I think is my favorite small tree frog appearance-wise, but I can't for the life of me find a recording of its call. And I've read that it's described as 'loud', and also quite active at night.

[En333]

Well you seem to bring the red eyed a lot, only I don't know if it's a good beginner frog. I'm not necessarily an expert on your desired frogs but if you have good responsibility, did your research, and have the money, then ou could get almost any frog you want! Lol

[datawog]

I do keep coming back to the red-eye xD they're just so pretty. I have read it's not a good beginner frog, better for advanced herpers.... maybe one day I'll get them but I think I'll wait until I've got more experience with them. It would really suck if one died on me, and I think it would break my stepdad's heart (he is very much the nature-loving vegetarian hippie, and especially loves frogs). I don't want to take on something I'm not ready for.

I think I've narrowed it down to either the pacific tree frogs or the reed frogs. I think I've caught a couple of pacifics myself, they're certainly my area (BC coast). There were two green frogs just this summer that I found in nana's garden underneath the hose faucet.

So, I'm just about decided. Unless I can track down a recording of the clown tree frog call (or maybe just take a chance and get them anyway... which I might). Or unless I learn about another frog that I hadn't been aware of before. Provided I can get it in my area (I'm still holding mossy frogs and bird poop frogs as a possibility, depending on if I can get them in and how much they would cost).

[En333]

Oh those RETF are very colorful and just plain awesome!! U seem to have your choices all set out for you which is good, just not in my expertise. Maybe someone who knows those species can help you haha

[Pega]

I would definitely say you should start with a green tree frog if possible. A green tree frog was my first pet frog and he was sturdy enough that an 11-year-old harrassing him didn't seriously detriment his health. (I was the 11-year-old) However, I tried a red-eyed a bit ago, and they are finicky little creatures and are NOT good for beginners. I found out the hard way.


So that's my little bit of advice.

[thadmy]

Clown tree frogs require the same tank set-up RETF have so if you don't think your ready for a RETF then I wouldn't advice a Clown either.

As for looking for a breeder in your area the best place would be a reptile show. I don't know where you would look to find when and where shows are here in the states reptilesmagazine has them all listed. But, that would be your best place to find a frog at a cheaper price and also breeders who can answer almost ANY question you have whereas at a pet shop you run the risk of them just saying any old thing to you just to make a sale.

[datawog]

That's not a bad idea, going to a reptile show. Oh, well do I know the perils of listening to 'the pet store people' (I've been keeping fish for a few years now.... if you know anything about the actual needs and natural lifespans of goldfish or bettas, you know how bad those bowls they sell are). I did find one show in my province, happening in April.. that's not a bad timeframe for me but I'm not sure how I would get there. It's 4 hours away and I don't know anyone that could drive me. Unless I asked Mom to do it as my birthday present XD

With the red-eyes, it's not the quality of my setup I'm concerned about but the size. Since they were bigger than any of the other frogs I was looking at and could jump pretty far I wasn't sure they'd be okay in that tank (which is 18"x18"x25"), but since then I've read that they prefer to walk and only jump when threatened, so that changes things a bit. Though since the clown tree frogs are smaller than the red-eyes, I would feel more comfortable with 3 or 4 in a tank.

I guess my big decision here is whether to go for something simple like a pacific tree frog, or jump straight into the hobby with both feet and get something really neat (since I want to get 3 of whatever I'm getting, reed frogs will cost me over $100). I still want to know how much everything costs before I make my decision and I've asked the pet store to get back to me (they actually specialize in reptiles and the lady I talk to keeps lots of frogs at home), and depending on how much I may or may not choose something else. I'm still holding out for mossy frogs and clown frogs. And if it's way too much maybe I'll ask around the forums of the reptile show, see if anyone knows what kinds of frogs will be there... might be more cost-effective.