Not eating, skin thinning

[MsLockwood]

Goodmorning,

My pacman frog hasn't eaten in about 15 days and started to hide under the substrate (coconut fibre) directly under the light where it's the dryest. This morning he was pretty papery and the substrate was stuck to his skin. I immediately put him in a clean water bath to rehydrate and was able to clean him off, however some of his skin came with the substrate. I'm worried the water conditions in his tank aren't quite right and would like some help finding the appropriate water conditionner. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated also.

Thanks!

[Poly]

Welcome the the Forum Ms. Lockwood!

It sounds like you may have a case of low humidity.

To help all the members who will read this thread, can you please post a photo of your frogs set-up?

What kind of light are you using, Pacmans don't need an intense heat lamp, and if one is used it can cause seriouse promlems, 50 watts is the maximum you want to use, and even then it needs to be a distance away that it won't dry out the substrate. A side tank mounted heat pad is a much safer way to go.

I would recommend that you give you Pacman a luke warm bath, and moisten his substrate.

What staple food do you feed him? Roughly, how old is he?

Hope he comes around for you!

~Royce

[Mentat]

...I'm worried the water conditions in his tank aren't quite right and would like some help finding the appropriate water conditioner...

From your description appears maybe your frog was going into estivation. Have no experience with that so will let others answer your question. Also can find lots of good info at the Pacman care article: Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding .

IRT conditioners; any made for reptiles or fish should be fine. Try and find one that not only takes care of Cl, but also detoxifies chloramines and heavy metals. I like Seachem products and use a conditioner named "Alpha" from their saltwater aquarium Vitro line.

[Heatheranne]

I have use Stress Coat for quite some time now on all of my water for my previous fish, snails, salamanders, firebelly toads, American bufo toad and currently my retf's and pacmans .

Here are some old and new pictures for you.

I mist twice a day and use 50watt infared bulbs on top of the screen top lids for my pacs, to one side of their tanks and also UTH heat pads on that same side. UTH pads two to a corner, one on each side of the corner. I occasionally move the heat lights over their water bowls when they soak bc they then will soak longer . The heat will briefly drop to the 70's if I use room temp dechlor water when I first mist, but heats right back up within about 10-15 minutes. And when I made a fresh gallon of water it nice and warm already.

Hope this helps .

Tank's old home...


Chomper's home...


Tank's new home... ( heat pads are to the right corner)

[GrifTheGreat]

Goodmorning,

My pacman frog hasn't eaten in about 15 days and started to hide under the substrate (coconut fibre) directly under the light where it's the dryest. This morning he was pretty papery and the substrate was stuck to his skin. I immediately put him in a clean water bath to rehydrate and was able to clean him off, however some of his skin came with the substrate. I'm worried the water conditions in his tank aren't quite right and would like some help finding the appropriate water conditionner. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated also.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forum,

Are you saying that you have Not been using any water conditioner?? Or that you aren't sure the one you're using is working? Please be specific. I cannot stress enough that using a water treatment IS ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL! If you use untreated water, your frog will "Tox Out" and die. I use Reptisafe by ZooMed. It works great; I've never had any problems with it.

How old is the frog? How long have you had it? What size tank is he in? What light are you using? What has his diet been? Do you use vitamin supplements and Calcium dust with D3? Has he had any bowel movements lately? Are there any other symptoms (skin abrasions, lethargy, runny stool, impaction, etc)? What are the temp and humidity levels kept at? Is there anything around his environment that could be causing stress? (too much noise or visual distraction, other pets, drafts from windows or air vents have all been known to stress out pacmans; when they get too stressed they often stop eating.) These are all important questions. The more details we have the easier it is to help your frog.

Fifteen days is much too long to go without food, particularly if this is a young frog. It is best to seek veterinary help. In the mean time, you need to force feed. Take him out of the enclosure and set him on some damp paper towels (moistened with dechlorinated water). It is easier to do if you have two people: one to hold the frog steady and the other to open his mouth and insert the food. Gently cup the frog from behind to keep him from backing away. The other person uses a credit card or shopper card to pry his mouth open. (I prefer the shopper cards because they are smaller but still firm.) Insert the card on one side of the mouth (it should be about where his stripe comes down his nose). Gently but firmly press down, increase the pressure until he opens. You should have the food item ready in your other hand and pressed against his "lips" so that as soon as he opens you can stick it in his mouth. You don't have to get the entire item in his mouth. Once food is partially swallowed, their instinct will usually take over and they will swallow it the rest of the way. He will try to swat away the card and the food. It will take several tries to get the food in his mouth. It is best to use worms. Dust the worms with a vitamin supplement. I use Rep-Cal Herptivite multivitamins and Fluker's Calcium dust with D3. Both should be available at any pet store. (please note that multivitamins and calcium dust should not be used in the same feeding as the frog's body will not optimally absorb them when used consecutively). Worms are much easier to digest. Anytime an animal goes long periods without eating, their stomach shrinks, so soft smaller food items are better. Bigger items or items with shells, exoskeletons, or bones are harder to swallow and require much more energy to digest. Your frog does not have any extra energy. He needs nutrients immediately. If you can, pick up Flucker's Repta Aid. It is an emergency aid supplement that works very well. It comes with a tube syringe that you squirt the supplement into the frogs mouth.

Shedding problems are most commonly the result of improper humidity levels, however, in your case they are most likely also caused by not eating. No nutrients are going into his body so his skin becomes dry and brittle and he cannot shed properly. Please answer these questions and keep us posted.

EDIT-You must also when using the compressed brick Eco Earth or any coco fiber substrate that is in this form expand it in warm De-chlorinated water. Your frogs should never be exposed to any chemicals inclueding the oils on your hands. You must wash your hands very thoroughly with a very mild cleanser before handleing your frog.

[GrifTheGreat]

If you can post pictures of the frog and his settup, that would be very helpful too.

[MsLockwood]

Thank you all very much for your help! I have been using water conditionners including Stress coat. I brought in my aquarium test kit this morning and tested the water. There is no chlorine or chloramides, nor ammonia, the pH is neutral, the one thing I did test for is copper and there's about .25-.5ppm in the water. Would this be a problem? How do I get rid of it if it is? He's about a year old, he's in a 15 gallon tank with a 50 watt bulb on one side that I can dim. Since he's not been looking good I've put a dark, damp cloth on one side of his tank so he feels more secure. I think I jumped to conclusions with the feeding days, I put crickets in the tank and will often find one or two dead bodies when 6-10 where put in so he must be eating. I used to feed him meal worms and he's stopped eating those. How often do you feed your frogs? I was doing 2-3 meal worms, twice a week and then started with the crickets.

Thank you very much for the responses. I should also mention he's a class pet but is never handled, I also have a white's tree frog who is eating and acting fine and lives in similar conditions to the pacman frog (not the same tank obviously).

[GrifTheGreat]

Thank you all very much for your help! I have been using water conditionners including Stress coat. I brought in my aquarium test kit this morning and tested the water. There is no chlorine or chloramides, nor ammonia, the pH is neutral, the one thing I did test for is copper and there's about .25-.5ppm in the water. Would this be a problem? How do I get rid of it if it is? He's about a year old, he's in a 15 gallon tank with a 50 watt bulb on one side that I can dim. Since he's not been looking good I've put a dark, damp cloth on one side of his tank so he feels more secure. I think I jumped to conclusions with the feeding days, I put crickets in the tank and will often find one or two dead bodies when 6-10 where put in so he must be eating. I used to feed him meal worms and he's stopped eating those. How often do you feed your frogs? I was doing 2-3 meal worms, twice a week and then started with the crickets.

Thank you very much for the responses. I should also mention he's a class pet but is never handled, I also have a white's tree frog who is eating and acting fine and lives in similar conditions to the pacman frog (not the same tank obviously).

Pacmans need temps of 80 to 85 degrees during the day and 75 to 79 at night. They must be fed at night because they are nocturnal. Also can be stressed very easily by loud children/noise/etc. Humidity levels must be kept at 70 to 80% at all times. The substrate needs to be moist or heavily damp not muddy. He needs to be fed crickets or earth worms as a staple food. Meal worms can cause impaction(severe constipation) if fed too often. They should only be given as atreat once a week if that. Also if its a young frog it needs food daily to every other day. A Pacman frog is not a good classroom pet. The noise and not to mention that I'm assuming that you teach during the day wjen Pacmans sleep not at night makes it difficult to keep an eye on him. Being tropical frogs they need a consistent climate and day night cycle of 12 hours day 12 hours night. Water must be changed everyday no excptions. Substrate must be changed no less than once a month. Also between. Changes once a week you need to toss the soil(mix it up and mist it) to reduce the chance of fungal growth and keep the frog fom sitting in his own urine which will make them sick. There is a lot of responcibility with Pacmans that most people don't realize until they have one and an issue like this one occurs.

If there is no one there to keep humidity up by misting and feed him properly he will die. Humidity helps with their bodily functions and prevents dehydration. Feeding him proper food and being sure to dust it with a multivitamin once a week and with a calcium supplement every other feeding is key to keeping him healthy. Also be sure to use a calcium supplement that contains vitamin D3 so he can metabolize the calcium for use in the body without losing most of it.

About the copper which as you know is a heavy metal and can build up in our systems as well as the frogs can be reducedd with a different water treatment. There are other de-chlorinating products that also remove heavy metals. Use Tetrafauna Aqua Safe for reptiles and amphibians. It removes chlorine/chlorimines/and heavy metals. Switching to this conditioner should help a lot.

Keep us posted on his condition and ask any questions you need answering.

[MsLockwood]

Thank you, he seems to be doing better today, I put chickets in with multivitamin powder and he's been moving around. I really appreciate all your help and suggestions. I'm taking him home for the weekend until he's better but possibly indefinitely. I should have thought of the nocturnal part and feel dumb that I didn't.

[GrifTheGreat]

Thank you, he seems to be doing better today, I put chickets in with multivitamin powder and he's been moving around. I really appreciate all your help and suggestions. I'm taking him home for the weekend until he's better but possibly indefinitely. I should have thought of the nocturnal part and feel dumb that I didn't.

Its an easy mistake. A lot of people think that because they saw someone on Youtube feed their Pacman during the day that its ok when it really is not. Also pet stores lable them as a beginner pet when they actually require more care than that. The frog may cost 15 bucks, but after buying everything the frog needs you're up to $250 to $275 or more depending on how you have their setup. Everything needs to be kept perfect and scheduled on climate and housing. Not too many fluctuations or they can become stressed or ill. Only handle them when necissary and before you do always wash your hands thoroughly with hot water and a very mild cleanser. Nothing with strong odors. Then rinse well dry your hands completley then rerinse with de-chlorinated water and leave your hands wet. This way you don't harm their very sensitive skin.

Poop must be cleaned out weekly right as soon as you see it. Hopefully once you get him home hell purk right up and be back to normal.

Still keep us posted. We like to know how everyones frogs are doing and we love pictures so as soon as you can put some on the forum

[MsLockwood]

I can't figure out of to post pictures but will as soon as I do.

[GrifTheGreat]

I can't figure out of to post pictures but will as soon as I do.

You can upload them to albums in your profile or upload them into a thread by selecting (Go Advanced) then scroll down to (Manage Attachments). You should be able to upload them in these two ways.

[GrifTheGreat]

Good luck with the little guy and you're welcome. Forgot to say that and felt rude. :P

[tayla94]

hi i just saw what you wrote and my frog hasnt eaten anything since he turned into a frog. i dont know what typ eof frog he is but he turned into a frog a few days ago.
thanks

[Mentat]

hi i just saw what you wrote and my frog hasnt eaten anything since he turned into a frog. i dont know what typ eof frog he is but he turned into a frog a few days ago.
thanks

Welcome to frog forum Tayla. Recommend you start a new thread for your frog so it gets proper attention since few members are going to visit a two week old thread. Also, try and describe your set-up, maintenance, and frog (including pics) the best you can. Thank you!