toad's slow death

[jonpwn]

i've concluded that my fowler's toad is dying of Metabolic Bone Disease, or starvation from being unable to eat because of MBD (he hasn't eaten in at least 2 weeks and i've never force fed him). No necropsy or xray scans but i've read about the symptoms and saw a few videos of reptiles with MBD and they act similarly to how my toad was acting. I've only fed it crickets that probably weren't fed right at my local petland, and i never dusted them with anything. Unfortunate, but now i know better for my smaller toad.

Regardless, he's been lying in a sprawled out position for the past few days. I thought he was already deceased last night but his legs were twitching every now and then and there was what seemed to be a heartbeat coming from his upper belly when i flipped him over. I left him to be. Now he hasn't moved his location but muscles are still twitching. Sometimes if i give him a small nudge he'll squirm a little, or even squirm on . His eyes don't move anymore, not even retract. His throat doesn't go up and down, but his muscles are still twitchy. His stomach is very soft now, yesterday at least he was bloated. I was going to bury him in my backyard last night but after seeing him still move i didn't want to bury him alive.

It's very sad for me to check up on him every hour and see him still moving occasionally knowing that he's dying a very slow death.. Is this normal? I've heard of people euthanizing by putting the animal in the freezer overnight. Is there anything i can do to make it easier for him? (probably should stop touching him to see if he's alive..)

thanks.

[Sunshine]

I am really sorry to hear about your toad. If you want to euthanize him you can apply neosporin with benzocaine painkiller on his back. The benzocaine is what kills them and I heard that this is a very humane way to put them down.

[kueluck]

Sorry to hear about this & wish I could advise but I'm new at being a keeper of the toads. I have 2 that I've raised from toadlets since mid July 2011. I hope someone can advise quickly.

[jonpwn]

thanks for the kind words.. This past summer i actually brought home about 30 fowler tadpoles from the same pond/area that i caught my two bigger ones , none of them survived. I've had a more mature one last year but it ran away when it fell out of it's container..
worst luck with toads.

[BlueisallIneed]

Can I ask why the heck aren't you bringing him to a vet and having them force feed him?? You are just letting him suffer for no reason! When my Whites showed signs of this YEARS ago, I was able to reverse his condition and do what i didn't know. You sound like you know what you are NOT doing and just letting it be. You need to take him to a VET ASAP instead of letting him die like that, if he can't be saved, no thanks to you, you should at least tell the vet to put him down. Advice for the other toad, ANY signs of sickness freaking get it treated not wait till hes dying!!!!

[jonpwn]

local vet does not treat amphibians and i cannot locate one within a reasonable distance. Not to mention i was away for school during the weekdays. I made a thread two weeks ago when i first personally noticed the troubles and it's still on the first page. It's not like i waited til the very last minute to see if i could essentially resurrect him...

regardless I think he's really gone now, his limbs are stiff and there's no more twitching or small heartbeat.

Instead of posting an extensive bash on my alleged negligence, can you kindly help me by telling me if your frog was diagnosed with MBD or something similar and what your veterinarian did to cure him? My other one is under my close watch now since i am home for the break. And while this could have been an avoidable situation, I have taken it as a lesson on how to better care for my pets.

[BlueisallIneed]

I didn't say take him to a local Vet, i would have made the trip to a Vet that can treat him. I drive almost 45 mins to see my frogs vet, I don't care how far I have to drive if i know they can treat him. As far as bashing you, sorry for the outburst, your post sounded like you are not doing anything to help him at all.
Yes he had MBD, she gave me calcium drops and said to use it for about a week. Then to dust the crickets with calcium powder that is Phosphorous free. Crickets are pretty much made of all Phosphorous and that blockes Calcium absorbtion, so less Phosphorous the better. Read up Metabolic Bone Disease – MBD | Frog World hope this helps.

[Poly]

local vet does not treat amphibians and i cannot locate one within a reasonable distance. Not to mention i was away for school during the weekdays. I made a thread two weeks ago when i first personally noticed the troubles and it's still on the first page. It's not like i waited til the very last minute to see if i could essentially resurrect him...

regardless I think he's really gone now, his limbs are stiff and there's no more twitching or small heartbeat.

Instead of posting an extensive bash on my alleged negligence, can you kindly help me by telling me if your frog was diagnosed with MBD or something similar and what your veterinarian did to cure him? My other one is under my close watch now since i am home for the break. And while this could have been an avoidable situation, I have taken it as a lesson on how to better care for my pets.

Reguardless of the toads condition now, if you could not get it to a amphibian vet, it had not eaten in over a week and a half and you suspected it had a disease, why not humanely euthanize your toad, rather than letting it suffer?

This past summer i actually brought home about 30 fowler tadpoles from the same pond/area that i caught my two bigger ones , none of them survived.

For one, catching 30 WC tadpoles is wrong (not to mention foolishly letting them die!), and to keep them alive takes a lot of work! Did you do any research before hand?

-What did you keep them in?
-What did you feed them?
-What did you provide them with to ensure they were getting a proper calicum intake?

I've had a more mature one last year but it ran away when it fell out of it's container.. worst luck with toads.

And, why do you think it ran out of it's "container"?

-What kind of container were you keeping it in?
-How large was it?

If you are going to keep a Wild Caught Amphibains, you first must see it is it legal in your area.

Then, you need to research it's habitat, diet, vitamin, etc. requirments, determine if you can provide it with the proper, adaquate care it requires.

I caught two American Toads, before I did this though, I researched how to set them up a proper enclosure, how and what to feed them, etc. etc. Did you take an of these steps before catching those tadpoles or that toad?

[jonpwn]

Thanks for the link on MBD, i came across it before and used that list of symptoms as my basis.

I'd rather let nature run it's course, I've never euthanized any of my pets and wasn't sure if i could even do it. Describing any method of euthanasia as humane is subjective to each individual and I honestly do not know where i stand on the issue because i've never come across this decision until yesterday.

The tadpoles were kept in a 10 gallon tank, 30-50% water changed every day. Water was slowly added in increments over an hour to allow the tadpoles to acclimate. Initially I used water from the pond they were caught in. I fed them lettuce and spirulina discs (algae discs that i used to feed my plecostomus). as far as vitamins, i've never really given my pets any supplements/vitamins. Of course now it has come to my attention. 6 survived to become toadlets and i tried feeding them pinheads but no success. They slowly died one by one. I won't say i did my research before i brought them home but i did the day I got them in terms of immediate care, and subsequent care to adulthood.

container was a poor substitute for a habitat, it was a plastic shoebox. The toad was approximately an inch and a half from head to butt. However I've been feeding it crickets since the day i got it and was fine up until the day my parents didn't properly place the container on my table while i was away for school. I don't know exactly what happened, i wasn't home. I'm not blaming my parents and let's not start a discussion on my poor pet keeping. I've learned from then and have a close to proper habitat set up for my remaining toad in an actual aquarium tank. Local laws and park rules did not say it was illegal to keep wildlife as long as it was not of any conservation concern.

I have a lot to learn and i know it is unfair to learn through the consequences of death/misfortunes of innocent animals. I am trying harder to be a better pet keeper so please help and guide me when i have questions. As far as the original purpose of this thread, it can be disregarded..

[Squirp]

Dear Mister PWN,
I've expressed my concerns regarding toad enclosure, and care tips in a previous thread.
This has to be a task of never ending research to be a responsible toad handler.
I will express my sympathies, and I hope you can take everything constructively.
I know some peoples words can be a little off putting, but you already know you need to step up your game.
There is no point in a lecture, as long as you understand, make changes, and ask questions.

[Poly]

Dear Mister PWN,
I've expressed my concerns regarding toad enclosure, and care tips in a previous thread.
This has to be a task of never ending research to be a responsible toad handler.
I will express my sympathies, and I hope you can take everything constructively.
I know some peoples words can be a little off putting, but you already know you need to step up your game.
There is no point in a lecture, as long as you understand, make changes, and ask questions.

Yes, but Squirp, when innocent animals die due to careless individuals not properly careing for them, that's wrong! But, this is even worse, because when "jonpwn" tried feeding toadlets pinheads (toadlets have to be fed flightless fruit flies, you'd know that if you had of done your research!), and when the toadlets didn't eat them, instead of doing a quick "what do toadlets eat?" Google search, or releasing them into the wild, he let them starve to death.

[Poly]

I'd rather let nature run it's course

What!?

Nature?

Excuse me, but you just said that:

container was a poor substitute for a habitat, it was a plastic shoebox

I'll tell you one thing, that's not nature! "Letting nature run it's course" would have been to allow the toad to live in it's nature habibitat, or something we call... "nature", not a shoe box. I garranty, in nature it would have survived, but you confined it to poor conditions, and subsequently poor care, and this is the reason for it's death.

I've learned from then and have a close to proper habitat set up for my remaining toad

Okay, and another thing... Close to proper? You should have a proper enclosure set-up before you get the amphibain, not when you have it.

Can you post a photo of it's current enclosure?

And is this "remaining toad" in good health?

Excuse my ridicule, I'm no expert of amphibains, but I myself have never captured any WC amphibain without first knowing 100% how to care for it, and I have certainly never killed any amphibian. So I find it disturbing how over 30 amphibains have died while in your care...

[En333]

I'm sorry but I have to agree with them. Only they've said what should be said so there's no reason for me to go on... But I'm sure you've learned what was needed and hope you have a better future with your frogs

[Squirp]

There are a couple ways of handling this situation, but the the main problem is that this thread is designed to provoke a lot of emotions.
Had it been written with a different attitude, I think it would have yielded a more productive result, and we would all still be friends :P

[BlueisallIneed]

Thanks for the link on MBD, i came across it before and used that list of symptoms as my basis.

I'd rather let nature run it's course, I've never euthanized any of my pets and wasn't sure if i could even do it. Describing any method of euthanasia as humane is subjective to each individual and I honestly do not know where i stand on the issue because i've never come across this decision until yesterday.

The tadpoles were kept in a 10 gallon tank, 30-50% water changed every day. Water was slowly added in increments over an hour to allow the tadpoles to acclimate. Initially I used water from the pond they were caught in. I fed them lettuce and spirulina discs (algae discs that i used to feed my plecostomus). as far as vitamins, i've never really given my pets any supplements/vitamins. Of course now it has come to my attention. 6 survived to become toadlets and i tried feeding them pinheads but no success. They slowly died one by one. I won't say i did my research before i brought them home but i did the day I got them in terms of immediate care, and subsequent care to adulthood.

container was a poor substitute for a habitat, it was a plastic shoebox. The toad was approximately an inch and a half from head to butt. However I've been feeding it crickets since the day i got it and was fine up until the day my parents didn't properly place the container on my table while i was away for school. I don't know exactly what happened, i wasn't home. I'm not blaming my parents and let's not start a discussion on my poor pet keeping. I've learned from then and have a close to proper habitat set up for my remaining toad in an actual aquarium tank. Local laws and park rules did not say it was illegal to keep wildlife as long as it was not of any conservation concern.

I have a lot to learn and i know it is unfair to learn through the consequences of death/misfortunes of innocent animals. I am trying harder to be a better pet keeper so please help and guide me when i have questions. As far as the original purpose of this thread, it can be disregarded..

Sorry to put this so harshly, but if you can't take the time to take care of these animals the right way, and be ready to bring them to a Vet when needed then you should not be owning any animals. You need to be OUT of school then if you know you have no time for them and let others ( your parents) that have not the first clue how to take care of them help you. In any event if you need to be away for a bit you need to leave a detailed care sheet for them to follow. What bothers me to death is all the excuses you are giving for your negligence and then saying your letting nature run its course. What you are doing to these animals is not humane, you are doing them more harm then good. If you really care for these animals then you need to really understand and research them way before you get them not to mention are ready to take on the responsibity.

[GrifTheGreat]

It only takes one person to tell someone they're doing something wrong. I believe this person feels bad enough and you all should lay off now. Everyone is responding yet the person who posted has yet to reply anymore. You all agree that a mistake was made and that can't be changed no matter how many post here about the issue at hand. Just let it be now. What's done is done. Jonpwn I am sorry for your loss. Try and drastically do better with your young one and do your best to keep it healthy and happy. If a vet trip is needed down the road I would do my best to get it to a proper vet for treatment. Again I am sorry.

[En333]

Exactly

[Poly]

It only takes one person to tell someone they're doing something wrong. I believe this person feels bad enough and you all should lay off now. Everyone is responding yet the person who posted has yet to reply anymore. You all agree that a mistake was made and that can't be changed no matter how many post here about the issue at hand. Just let it be now. What's done is done. Jonpwn I am sorry for your loss. Try and drastically do better with your young one and do your best to keep it healthy and happy. If a vet trip is needed down the road I would do my best to get it to a proper vet for treatment. Again I am sorry.

I agree with you Grif, but it's just the cruelty of what I read that got me angry...

[Squirp]

No point getting angry.
JonPwn could be a troll in goats clothing.

[DonLisk]

Nice reply Grif.
As with any new pet, research before receiving the pet is the best course of action. But, its going to happen, pets purchased from pet stores with bad store advice, no prior research, and spur of the moment purchases will continue no matter how we try to apply what we learned to a new pet owner. Many only find us after the purchase and an issue arises or they want to now learn. Although we take so much to heart, we have to remember that our best course is to try and help and keep the member coming back so that he/she learns to better the life of their pet and then maybe pass on what was taught.

As for needing to euthanize. its a hard thing, and everyone has different tolerances to what they can bring themselves to do, no matter whether its the right thing or not. No matter how big and tough they seem or how meek and soft spoken they are. I'm cold and tough when I need to be and sad and broken when its over and alone. Others are different and some can't bring themselves to do this and some can. Just something to keep in mind when we want to help since we're going to get many different responses when it comes to putting down or losing a pet.