I'm scared to force feed my pac man frog

[GrifTheGreat]

Awe, what a little cutie!! He is definitely undersized for his age. But it sounds like he packs quite the attitude in that little body! It can take them a long time to recover and rebuild their fat stores. A fat cell will never completely go away once it has been developed, but if it has been depleted it takes awhile to build it back up. When Grif was sick and we had to force feed her it was over two months before she looked "healthy" again (which in pacman terms means chubby). It can be hard to tell exactly how much of a frog's mass is fat and how much is water. Most of the time when you see a pac bloated looking it is due to water weight. Keep up what you are doing. Get those calories and vitamins in him. He needs the nourishment. Keep a close eye on him, but it sounds like he will be fine. Again, he is adorable!

[LIZZIE82]

Yes, he has an attitude! I fed him 1.5 doses of the booster this evening. I gave him three wax worms and I was thinking he was eating them.... then, He opened his mouth and spit them all out! SIGH. I ended up getting him to eat 1.5 and left him alone. I came back a few hours and got him to eat one more. I also switched around around his bowls and gave him one that might let him get in and out easier. He has a lot more energy. He has started to push my tongs and syringe away.... with his front arms and back legs! His eyes look brighter I'm hopeful. I'm still having problems keeping his temperature up. When I moved him from his feeding bowl to soaking bowl I used my bare hands since I was out of gloves and he was cold to the touch. I have a sticky heater on the side and I have put a heating pad on the bottom and side and wrapped it in a towl to insulate. Any other ideas to help with the humidity and heat? Also, he has not pooped yet. He doesn't leave his bowl so I would know if he did... I started to force feed 4 days ago and he had a few solids yesterday and today. I should see that soon, right?

Thanks again for all the help!

[LIZZIE82]

Here is Pocket's "hospital" tank. LoL I hope he gets better soon! I had to eat dinner the other day standing up since he's on my dining room chair! Ah, the things we do for our lil friends! Also, I'm attaching a pic of one of my American Green Frogs... That way you can see that I have at least ONE healthy frog, lol. That is my little Charlotte. She is the bully of my tank of greens. She likes to steal favorite corners of the tank....and, forget walking AROUND one of the other frogs.... no way, she will just step on them! She's funny though!

[GrifTheGreat]

You shouldn't place a heat pad on the bottom incase he/she tries to burrow. They burrow to cool off and to sleep. If he/she felt too hot and burrowed over the pad he/she wouldn't understand why he/she couldn't cool off. Even though you have a sharp eye on him/her and don't see him leaving his dish doesn't mean he won't. When he is healthy it would be good to keep the pads on the sides. You're doing good with Pocket. He/she will take a little longer to fully digest and pass the food. The booster isn't a solid so it would take a lot to accumulate into a solid. The meal worms take a while because their exoskeleton cannot be digested by the frog and are natorious for causing impaction. Too many is bad. Crickets would be better or earth worms. Wax worms are very high in fat but have no nutritional value. Too many of those are bad as well. You can actually buy a cat/dog food that is canned and formulated for malnurished cats and dogs. You have to make sure is a solid not shredded or chopped. These kinds can be sucked up in a seringe and fed to your frog. If you want to go that route. This way you know he/she is getting plenty of solids. It could take your frog up to a week and a half to poop since he/she was pretty much completely empty. Keep up the good work. Getting a feeding responce from him/her is good. Also Charlotte looks very nice and yes very healthy.

[LIZZIE82]

I have a hard time catching the crickets. ... that's why I haven't given those. What dog/cat food would you suggest exactly? That seems like a really good option with the booster, dog food and a few crickets. I moved the heating pad off the bottom and have it on the side now.

[GrifTheGreat]

I have a hard time catching the crickets. ... that's why I haven't given those. What dog/cat food would you suggest exactly? That seems like a really good option with the booster, dog food and a few crickets. I moved the heating pad off the bottom and have it on the side now.

I think its Royal canine or Royal Crown. I can't remember the name. I believe Petsmart carries it though. Its Royal something. Lol! I can't believe I forgot the name of that food. Anyway look for that brand. Its what my vet gave to me to use and it worked well.

[LIZZIE82]

Just another update: Pocket pooped! LoL... He's got a lot more energy, and while I'm relieved... he's just making life difficult. He fights me like crazy to eat, will NOT open his mouth, turns around, thrashes around, well you get the idea. He's still not interested in eating on his own and will SPIT OUT EVERYTHING solid I have given him. SIGH. I will try again with some crickets tomorrow. Wish me luck!

[GrifTheGreat]

That's is good that he pooped! As frustrating as it may be that he is resisting, it at least shows that he is gaining strength. Hopefully it is an indication that he will eat on his own soon. Grif got very resistent about force feeding right before she started eating on her own again. Keep offering food and try to keep hiw stress down. Good luck!

[LIZZIE82]

I'm SO frustrated. Pocket is doing better and has a lot more energy. He's now impossible to feed though. Tonight, he would NOT open his mouth. Period. End of story. Kept turning around and was just being awful. I poked him in the eye at least three times by accident. I got fed up, put him in a kritter keeper with a paper towel and 6 crickets to see if he would eat. I put him in a dark room... came to check on him about 30 mins later and he was on his back!! I think he was throwing one his famous tantrums and hit the side of the keeper and fliped himself over and couldn't get back over. I tried to feed him again by force and he refused again. I put him back in his tank, in a clean water dish, upped the temp and covered him up. I'm still pretty upset over this. I thought we were doing soo good. Last night, he ate his booster, 3 crickets and I put him in his tank and he was really looking good. He's starting to fill out and I looked back on pics of him a week ago compared to now.... You can really tell the difference. Now, he's being stubborn and I'm afraid this is what he is going to do every night. Not to mention, Im sure my neighbors could hear me... and are now wondering why I keep calling my pocket a brat!

[Sublime]

Actually, your frog being found on his or her back is a sign of them being stressed. From the scenario you gave us, it seems like there is too much human contact and moving into another bin to eat. Let him chill for a few days in his normal tank with a few crickets periodically and don't get yourself so stressed out. Especially if you're yelling real loud, it could be bothersome to him and he'll refuse to eat. They have ear drums too .

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm SO frustrated. Pocket is doing better and has a lot more energy. He's now impossible to feed though. Tonight, he would NOT open his mouth. Period. End of story. Kept turning around and was just being awful. I poked him in the eye at least three times by accident. I got fed up, put him in a kritter keeper with a paper towel and 6 crickets to see if he would eat. I put him in a dark room... came to check on him about 30 mins later and he was on his back!! I think he was throwing one his famous tantrums and hit the side of the keeper and fliped himself over and couldn't get back over. I tried to feed him again by force and he refused again. I put him back in his tank, in a clean water dish, upped the temp and covered him up. I'm still pretty upset over this. I thought we were doing soo good. Last night, he ate his booster, 3 crickets and I put him in his tank and he was really looking good. He's starting to fill out and I looked back on pics of him a week ago compared to now.... You can really tell the difference. Now, he's being stubborn and I'm afraid this is what he is going to do every night. Not to mention, Im sure my neighbors could hear me... and are now wondering why I keep calling my pocket a brat!

Remember what I said about staying calm and to be patient with Pocket? You are doing exactly what he doesn't need now. Too much stress is bad. If you yell and get aggrivated you're going to make things worse. Poking him in the eye is really going to stress him out. You yourself are making things more difficult than it actually is. Don't rush when trying to force feed. You're going to injure him. If he refuses to eat and acts stressed like flipping on his back then stop and place him in his home and let him be til the next night. Fighting with him will most definetly make things worse. Never yell. He can hear and your tone combined with him being able to sence your emotions will severly complicate his reaction to you and he will fight you more. He will fear you and not see you as helping anymore. CALM DOWN! Keep us posted.

[LIZZIE82]

I know, I feel really bad. I lost my cool due to all the other stress I'm under. He was doing well this morning. I think he will probably eat tonight. He probably felt my stress and responded. Poor Guy. :-(

[GrifTheGreat]

I know, I feel really bad. I lost my cool due to all the other stress I'm under. He was doing well this morning. I think he will probably eat tonight. He probably felt my stress and responded. Poor Guy. :-(

Don't lose your cool. You have to be patient and yes I'm sure that he responded accordingly to your frustration. They ars stubborn animals and if they don't want something they aren't going to take it. You have to be focused when force feeding because you have to be quick. And if you're stressing yourself then you're stressing him and your not going to be able to get the food in his mouth because you're trying too hard and he's going to move away and refuse. This time around be extremely gentle and when you speak to him do it with a soft voice. Be caring and show him that you're not trying to harm him and are trying to help. I always would show Grif the food before I would try to force feed to prepare he so she knew what I was going to do. You should do the same. Even with the seringe of booster. They are much more responcive if they already know what it is you're trying to do.

[LIZZIE82]

Update: I came home from work this afternoon and I tried again with Pocket. I apoligized to the little guy and I think he forgave me. He ate hs booster, 2 crickets and a wax worm. I've got a lot of stress in my own personal life right now.... I think he has been feeling that. I still feel really bad.

[LIZZIE82]

I'm wondering if it's normal for my frog to smell? Or, does he maybe Have an infection? I smell something that I would describe as fishy smelling. His water is changed at least daily. His substrate is clean. I smell it When I have him out for feedings. I normally rinse him after he's done eating and then place him back in his fresh water.... thanks!

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm wondering if it's normal for my frog to smell? Or, does he maybe Have an infection? I smell something that I would describe as fishy smelling. His water is changed at least daily. His substrate is clean. I smell it When I have him out for feedings. I normally rinse him after he's done eating and then place him back in his fresh water.... thanks!

Does he urinate when you get him out? You could be smelling amonia if he does. Signs of an infection on the dermal tissue or skin would be apparent and show. Really reddish areas on the skin also sores and dry flakes of skin. Red leg is a bacterial infection in which the thighs will appear severly red from the bacteria bursting blood vessles. Other syptoms to red leg are loss of appetite/bloating/listlessness/and lythargy. It could also be from the booster. You have to give the correct dosage to weight. Most of them tell you how much to give your frog based on its weight. Too much can be harmful as these supplements contain lots of vitamins which could build up in your frogs system and harm of kill him. It is possible that this is where the smell is coming from.

[LIZZIE82]

Does he urinate when you get him out? You could be smelling amonia if he does. Signs of an infection on the dermal tissue or skin would be apparent and show. Really reddish areas on the skin also sores and dry flakes of skin. Red leg is a bacterial infection in which the thighs will appear severly red from the bacteria bursting blood vessles. Other syptoms to red leg are loss of appetite/bloating/listlessness/and lythargy. It could also be from the booster. You have to give the correct dosage to weight. Most of them tell you how much to give your frog based on its weight. Too much can be harmful as these supplements contain lots of vitamins which could build up in your frogs system and harm of kill him. It is possible that this is where the smell is coming from.

I don't know if he urinates when I take him out.... What I normally do is soak up the water in his dish (he still hangs out in his dish) with paper towels, put him on a bench to feed him in that dish and after he's done eating, I put him in a new (sanitized dish.) I do rinse him with water before I trans him though. There aren't any visible signs of infection. In fact, I'm pretty sure he doesn't have one. I really think it's the booster that is making the smell. I'm giving him the proper dosage. He doesn't have red leg.

He is doing REALLY well! He ate three crickets last night and tonight. He had his booster, too. Still won't eat on his own. He looks really good compared to how he looked when I started to to feed the booster. His color is much better and his belly is really getting big (no, he's not impacted.) His attitude is getting worse, lol, and his cooperation is next to nothing I'll take it, though! I just want him to be healthy.

[LIZZIE82]

Well, he is out of his water dish. He got out of it earlier and he was kind of pressed against the glass on the wrong side...I put him back in the dish and I just went to check on him.....he's out again, sitting on his substrate. He pooped again, I cleaned his water dish, gave him fresh water and made sure his dish was flush against the substrate so it's easy to get in and out of. I'M NERVOUS!! We've got a cold front coming through and the heater is coming on and I'm struggling with humidity in all my vivs. I'm misting all tanks and I have TWO humidifiers going and the humidity drops so quick! I hope he gets back in the water. I guess I will have my neighbor come up and mist him if he doesn't burrow by morning. Wish us luck....I knew he was feeling better but I wish he'd stay where I know he's safe!

[Sublime]

Probably not a great idea to wash him down (stress and any frog being washed down would be irritated), unless what you're talking about is just putting him in a bowl? The smell seems to me like some sort of bacterial disease (infectious) would be my guess. I'm sorry if I missed one of your comments about you changing his tank regularly, but how often do you change it? Just try to keep everything clean and sanitary in his tank for now. Smell the booster content and then smell him - that's easy to determine.

Good that you notice signs of him being better. Howcome you take him out of his water dish? How often do you check up on him? Do you place any type of screen covering to keep moisture from evaporating quickly? Heaters will reduce some relative humidity, but not by much.

[GrifTheGreat]

Probably not a great idea to wash him down (stress and any frog being washed down would be irritated), unless what you're talking about is just putting him in a bowl? The smell seems to me like some sort of bacterial disease (infectious) would be my guess. I'm sorry if I missed one of your comments about you changing his tank regularly, but how often do you change it? Just try to keep everything clean and sanitary in his tank for now. Smell the booster content and then smell him - that's easy to determine.

Good that you notice signs of him being better. Howcome you take him out of his water dish? How often do you check up on him? Do you place any type of screen covering to keep moisture from evaporating quickly? Heaters will reduce some relative humidity, but not by much.

Mark is right about washing the frog down. That would stress him. You shouldn't take him in and out of his water dish all the time. You already have to handle him while force feeding. If he gets out of the water then he doesn't want to be in there anymore and that is fine. Keep the substrate moist and he will not dehydrate. Definetly cover part of the top of the enclosure with a damp cloth to help maintain humidity levels within the enclosure. Try not to handle him more than is necissary otherwise you risk stressing him more and he will take longer to recover. Do as Mark said and smell the booster. If the smells are similar then it is more than likely the booster. I've noticed that Grif smells like the Hornworm food when she eats Hornworms so it is very possible that the frog is secreting some of the booster when producing mucus(the frogs slime layer).

Also as Mark said cleanliness is a huge factor in your frogs recovery. I would change the substrate every 2 weeks and disinfect the enclosure until he fully recovers.