Buzzkill. I was hoping it would be genetic. Either way, thanks for the info Jeff, and once I finally can get a roach colony I'll keep an eye out for abnormalities.
Thank you Jeff for contacting kyle. That was great information that he had to say about what may be causing it.
HRM. idk.
I know my roaches are at pretty optimum temp's, humidity, and have a premium food supply... Maybe to much of a good thing/s ?
I'm puzzled.
I think the key phrase in Kyle's email was the "per say" in paranthesis. He makes a strong argument when he claims that dubia are raised for maximal production, and not necessarily "ideal." I'll elaborate:
Most serious roach enthusiasts create somewhat naturalistic caging for their inverts; this inlcudes a substrate, often dry hardwood/oak leaves, and decaying wood to munch on. Furthermore, this allow the ambient humidity to remain more constant and creates a number of constant food and moisture sources. The ideal B. dubia environment in all honestly is probably an enclosure with a coir based substrate, littered with oak leaves, and having lots of dead wood available for hiding and munching on. Also - the temperatures we keep them at for production are not their ideal. We actually kind of force them to grow at an extremely rapid rate for our production goals. Higher temperatures force them to dehydrate faster than they can absorb water for metabolic purposes (thats why roaches kept warmer seem to consume absolutely massive quanitity of moisture product).
Believe it or not, temperatures where B. dubia come from very seldom exceed ~86 degrees F. Can they handle 100? you bet, and you force their metabolism to go crazy which leads to roaches attaining adult size rapidly and therefore reproducing at a more rapid rate. B. dubia's optimal environment is honestly temperatures between 75-90 degrees MAX... probably a thermogradiant that allows for a high 70's cool end and an 88 degree hot spot. They may grow a little slower and breed a little slower, but thats the kind of environment they naturally live in. Also, overcrowding... while I agree they do breed better in crowded conditions (along with a number of other species, such as some in the Blaberus genus) that doesn't necessarily mean its optimal for their development. Pheromone production begins to dictate breeding as priority over doing other daily roachies activites, it becomes more of a massive orgy rather than living in boring normal roach land.
If they have a constant supply of food and a constant supply of moisture, they will do their best to reproduce at the maximal rate they can. Temperatures are proportional to growth in insects (to a certain point) because metabolism increases with temps. But that doesn't mean staying at a constant ultimate metabolism is good, and that may be representative in their pigmentation. Not saying that keeping them the way we do is "bad" because we are attaining our goal of producing as many nymphs as possible for our herps - but many of us rearing feeding insects would get back-handed by a die-hard roach enthusiast for keeping them the way we do LOL!
Edit: When I say "you" I'm not referring to anyone, should really read "we" because I keep my feeders on the hotter side, etc as well. I practically neglect half of my feeder colonies and baby the heck out of my collector species = )
Last edited by JeffreH; November 6th, 2011 at 10:37 AM.
-Jeff Howell
ReptileBoards ( Branched from The Reptile Rooms )
"If you give, you begin to live." -DMB
JeffreH, that's an interesting post. Good thing I don't have any insect-loving friends...
Mine all looked like that after their adult shed. I just assumed that it just took them a few days to get the orange. All are normal colors now.
@Jeff Yeah, that makes complete sense. I actually subscribed to a guy on youtube by the name "TheRoachHut" - family run operated business stationed in the UK for collective & feeder species. He shows you the amount of care that goes into the collective species with the coir based substrate and dead forest floor scatterings in the tank.
I wanted to ask you a question though since you do have collector species... Have you ever come across Macropanesthia Rhinoseros (Giant Burowing Cockroach) or happen to own any? These things are enormous size for roaches and have a life span of up to 10 years.
This species is every roach enthusiasts dream = )
I have come across them for sale - usually quite rare but they pop up from time to time. Cheapest I've seen is ~$100 a nymph but I've seen upwards to $500 for older specimens. Keep in mind these guys take years to reach maturity... and they can be fragile. Dexter and Debbie are actually selling small nymphs:
Roaches
Occasionally a private seller will have them, and Kyle has a pair I think now (maybe more or less?). Only other actual name I've got in the US is Orin McMonigle <-- Allpet Roaches
Eurycotis decipiens will be my next species I think
Edit: I like that guy's videos, thanks for the name!
-Jeff Howell
ReptileBoards ( Branched from The Reptile Rooms )
"If you give, you begin to live." -DMB
Wow, that's a lot of dough to drop on roaches haha. Yeah I heard that they take 3-4 years to reach sexual maturity and the females only produce 20-25 nymphs during fall. Good to know the sources that are selling them.
No problem for the youtube channel.
Jeff,
That puts it in perspective for me much better. I completely agree....... but...
let's keep it PG13 in here huh bud?
I also looked into the M. Rhinoseros, and cheapest I found was like $120 each, and they only had two sub adults for sale. I was tempted, but when I told my wife she gave me that look that said if I went through with it, I would be castrated in my sleep, while saying "thats.... interesting..."
btw, that reminds me. Ever think about offering Eucalyptus to dubia?
Lol! = )
I actually wouldn't feed any species of Eucalyptus to any species of roach (even Macropanesthia rhinoceros) - unless you could get it imported or know the source that has imported it from Australia. Every (well, darn near every) species of Eucalyptus that grows in the US as a landscape plant is absolutely toxic to roaches. There might be a a few species that could be safe but I don't trust myself in differentiating them. The garden varieties that are highly aromatic and most common in the states are a huge no-no though.
Oak leaves are the way to go; and I know of several keepers in the states who have had success rearing nymphs and adults of M. rhinoceros using no Eucalyptus at all in the diet. I'd definitely avoid it for B. dubia unless you are 110% certain of the source; which would really just be expensive potential risk in my opinion when most backyards have a variety of nice decayging hardwood and hardwood leaves that most every roach species adores = )
Try Oak, walnut, or maple leaves instead; not worth the risk. A lot of keepers have noted better success rates when not feeding Eucalyptus - and the kind that are toxic can take several days to kill a roach.
-Jeff Howell
ReptileBoards ( Branched from The Reptile Rooms )
"If you give, you begin to live." -DMB
good info to have.
All the leaves are dropping here already so ive been thinking of gathering up some leaves, baking them, and serving them to the roaches just for something else for them the munch on.
I was browsing the net looking for information on the subject of Dubia color morphs. This was the most recent forum that I could find. I had similar color patterns a few years ago when I was raising Dubia for a hedgehog. I separated the color morphs into different classifications by their specific mutations, and began a selective breeding program. I was able to isolate the specific orange "face", yellow striped body, and clear wings (females only) in my breeders. I raise them in separate containers to only allow the females to breed with specific males. The issue with the males is that the color variation doesn't initially occur on the wings, it takes place on the body. So if you were to lift the wings you would be able to see that the stripes are genetic, the hypo is genetic, and the coloration of the underside is also genetic. Is there anyone else that has had any success with this kind of breeding program? I am trying to establish an acceptable "cull" Percentage to be able to isolate this as a consistent morph.
These are examples of an isolated female with the light body and the "face", Isolated female with the orange head, and pictures of a male that exhibits the yellow body trait and clear wing trait. All of my 37 females exhibit the same striped body trait, my 6 breeding males exhibit the striped body trait, but only 2 males and 6 females have the orange head trait, all of which came from the same mother/father, so direct cross breeding will be impossible due to inbreeding depression. The question is, "Is anyone interested in this color morph?". I will post pictures of my breeders if anyone is interested in seeing how they are progressing.
Last edited by Frost; May 18th, 2012 at 05:04 PM.
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