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Thread: I'm new and having issues!

  1. #21
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    If she is still eating regularly, then you should be ok. Their appetites can vary greatly from frog to frog. They can also vary from night to night. Sometimes mine will eat a lot for a couple nights in a row and then eat very little for the next night or two. It is ok as long as she is still eating good over all and is healthy. As mentioned before, she may have been stunted due to conditions when she was younger or she may have simply inherited small genes.

    She will obviously have fewer bowel movements if she is eating less, but it is something you want to keep an eye on. Impaction is very dangerous for them. A five minute soak in some lukewarm de-chlorinated water will often help them go. Keep us updated!


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  3. #22
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by BG View Post
    Ivory my frog was on his death bed. What got him back on his feet was fuzzy injected with liquid calcium,and vitamin. I hat to put it between his teeth. it took him a half an hour to swallow it, thats how weak he was, I was so embarrassed to take pics of him cause he was disgusting skinny. He is living proof.
    I think that it becomes a case by case issue. It is going to depend on the different factors: what caused the frog to stop eating, how long it has been since it ate, the age and size of the frog, etc. In general, I will recommend starting with softer foods. Or if for instance, the sick frog was too small to be fed a pinkie. But I can't fault what you did George. You obviously saved your pac's life. I have been through that situation and I know how hard it is. I remember when Grif was not eating. She looked so skinny even when she was bloated with water; then she would pee and her skin would hang off her bones... it broke my heart every time. I didn't take any pictures of her like that because it was just too horrible. @ Sublime, it is very stressful, but I tried to be as calm as possible. I believe that any animal will pick up on your stress and it just would have made the situation worse. But we pulled through and now Grif is a healthy eating machine and over four inches stv!


  4. #23
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    If she is still eating regularly, then you should be ok. Their appetites can vary greatly from frog to frog. They can also vary from night to night. Sometimes mine will eat a lot for a couple nights in a row and then eat very little for the next night or two. It is ok as long as she is still eating good over all and is healthy. As mentioned before, she may have been stunted due to conditions when she was younger or she may have simply inherited small genes.

    She will obviously have fewer bowel movements if she is eating less, but it is something you want to keep an eye on. Impaction is very dangerous for them. A five minute soak in some lukewarm de-chlorinated water will often help them go. Keep us updated!
    She didn't seem to eat anything last night, could I be putting too much food in? I have put a fair few crickets in the last few nights, they don't seem to move a lot...

    Oh right, I may do that next weekend, although I can't see what would make her like that, she doesn't have any moss or anything in there, or it just something that happens?

  5. #24
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Also I just measured her and she is 2 inches, I guess I underestimated her size!

    I've also ordered some of them giant lob worms, hopefully she will eat it chopped up, she did like the wax worms...

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by vivalabam View Post
    Also I just measured her and she is 2 inches, I guess I underestimated her size!

    I've also ordered some of them giant lob worms, hopefully she will eat it chopped up, she did like the wax worms...
    She could be slightly constipated due to the wax worms. How long ago did you feed them to her? I've seen the skins of wax worms undigested. They look like you let the air out of a balloon. Long and flat. Could easily block the intestines. Feel her right side if it feels hard then she needs to poop. A nice soak in some luke warm de-chlorinated water definetly helps. Also if she isn't to skiddish you can very gently massage the hard spot on her side. This will also help her poop. I hope she's healthy and just stunted. There is another person on this forum that has a stunted Pacman abouth the same size as yours. Dwarf Pacmans.


  7. #26
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Just gave her a poke and she is very soft, I felt a bone, but other than that she seems to be full of softness. She jumped up and made me jump!

    Her last wax worm must have been about 8ish weeks. Wow I didn't think it had been that long! I've not seen her poop recently though, usually they leave me a nice present in the water dish, or where their last crater was. Although she could have done one when I moved her, when I brought them back to uni with me a few of them pooped in their carrier tubs, I didn't pay much attention at the time!

  8. #27
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by vivalabam View Post
    Just gave her a poke and she is very soft, I felt a bone, but other than that she seems to be full of softness. She jumped up and made me jump!

    Her last wax worm must have been about 8ish weeks. Wow I didn't think it had been that long! I've not seen her poop recently though, usually they leave me a nice present in the water dish, or where their last crater was. Although she could have done one when I moved her, when I brought them back to uni with me a few of them pooped in their carrier tubs, I didn't pay much attention at the time!
    Hmmm did she eat recently? If her right side feels soft then she probably doesn't have to poop. Does she seem farely active at night?


  9. #28
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Hmmm did she eat recently? If her right side feels soft then she probably doesn't have to poop. Does she seem farely active at night?
    She's not eaten in a couple of nights that I know of, but there's so much food in there she may have had the odd cricket!

    I'm not sure I'm asleep. :P She is more active than most of my other frogs, she comes out of the dirt, goes in the dirt, completely buries, then comes back out. She moves locations a fair amount.

  10. #29
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    I forgot to ask if you have 3 sides of her tank covered in some sort of background? Just asking because its a stress reducer. Makes them feel more secure.


  11. #30
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Do you remove the uneaten food in the morning? If not you should. Crickets bite and if they're hungry they will chew on your frog if she is listless or weak. Also the crickets will annoy her and stress her when she is trying to sleep. Should only offer what she will eat and if she finishes her normal amount then try and throw an extra in to see if shell eat it.


  12. #31
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Do you remove the uneaten food in the morning? If not you should. Crickets bite and if they're hungry they will chew on your frog if she is listless or weak. Also the crickets will annoy her and stress her when she is trying to sleep. Should only offer what she will eat and if she finishes her normal amount then try and throw an extra in to see if shell eat it.
    I don't, I'll start doing that. ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    I forgot to ask if you have 3 sides of her tank covered in some sort of background? Just asking because its a stress reducer. Makes them feel more secure.
    Well she has a frog on either side of her, they each have heat mats so it's just black, then the back of her is a wall, so the only way she gets light is through the top and front.

  13. #32
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Good to hear crickets can be aggressive. Well I wouldn't think that shed be stressed from not having coverings then. Do you have each frog in the same tank with dividers? If so you need a temp gauge in each frogs area. I know you said you believe the humidity is correct but I'm seriously reccomending you purchase hygrometers and place them in each frogs area. Humidity drops very quickly and you can't know for sure if its correct if you have no way to measure its accumluation within the tank. Humidity also affects growth/activity/appetite/hydration/and ease of shedding. It is a must for these tropical frogs. Just because the substrate is moist doesn't mean that the air within the enclosure is moist enough. Moisture in the air helps them keep hydrated. I don't want to be pushy, but assuming that its right doesn't make it so. I'm just trying to help. I don't want you to feel offended.


  14. #33
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Good to hear crickets can be aggressive. Well I wouldn't think that shed be stressed from not having coverings then. Do you have each frog in the same tank with dividers? If so you need a temp gauge in each frogs area. I know you said you believe the humidity is correct but I'm seriously reccomending you purchase hygrometers and place them in each frogs area. Humidity drops very quickly and you can't know for sure if its correct if you have no way to measure its accumluation within the tank. Humidity also affects growth/activity/appetite/hydration/and ease of shedding. It is a must for these tropical frogs. Just because the substrate is moist doesn't mean that the air within the enclosure is moist enough. Moisture in the air helps them keep hydrated. I don't want to be pushy, but assuming that its right doesn't make it so. I'm just trying to help. I don't want you to feel offended.
    I always give them a mist when I do the watering, so it should be fine! I've never found them to actually work, I have 1 temperature thing, I stick it in the tanks occasionally to make sure they are all ok. Might explain why my other little one has been funny the last couple of days, I always leave his lid off, if it gets too humid he spends the whole day and night smacking his head against the side. >_< Guess the humidity has been escaping, he'll get an extra mist every night before bed now! I can guarantee what will happen if I get a humidity measure, it will fall out and end up somewhere on my bedroom floor lol! That's where the thermometer is most of the time...

    No, each frog is in individual tanks, got 2 that share a heat mat, and the three above have 2 heat mats, one on each side of Princess. but I'm always swapping them about, sometimes all 3 have one, other times I take one away. It seems to be working at the moment, the temps seem to be ok!

  15. #34
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Have you read the care article on Pacmans. The care sheet is within the care articles. Misting once a day is seriously not enough. I'm telling you just because they can handle levels at 60%doesn't mean they should be kept that way all the time. Trust me I have a Zoo Med Hygrotherm. It controls the level of heat and humidity within my Pacs enclosures. If the humidity falls which it does quite often it kicks on my Reptifogger to raise the humidity. I even have the screen top covered 3/4 of the way with Plastic wrap to hold heat and humidity in. I suggest that you buy a digital hygrometer as they seem to be more accurate. It is more ideal to maintain certain temp and humidity ranges as it gives these frogs the environment the really need for proper developement and growth. Their ideal humidity is 70 to 80% and the human eye or bady cannot accurately measure humidity levels just by sight or touch. There is a reason why when buying and careing for these frogs that it says a tempreture gauge and hygrometer are required to measure the levels within the enclosure. There are several of us experianced owners and not to mention breeders that will tell you this.

    You say they don't seem to work and they'll end up on your floor. These devices are supposed to remain inside the enclosure with your frog. You don't take them out and then every now and then place it in for a reading. That doesn't give a very accurate reading and it could be too late by the time you realize its too hot in the enclosure or way too dry. Touch and sight don't measure accurately. I realize thing have been fine so far but you are taking risks in this method. And you should never have to open the tank to let humidity out. You can't read how humid it is in the tank so how do you know its to humid. They are tropical and love very humid environments. Without proper humidity levels they can develope problems later on. I'm trying to help.


  16. #35
    LizardMama
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Could you frog be burying her poos? When mine was alive I'd find him sit right on top of it and sometimes his stools would be buried underneath him.

  17. #36
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Have you read the care article on Pacmans. The care sheet is within the care articles. Misting once a day is seriously not enough. I'm telling you just because they can handle levels at 60%doesn't mean they should be kept that way all the time. Trust me I have a Zoo Med Hygrotherm. It controls the level of heat and humidity within my Pacs enclosures. If the humidity falls which it does quite often it kicks on my Reptifogger to raise the humidity. I even have the screen top covered 3/4 of the way with Plastic wrap to hold heat and humidity in. I suggest that you buy a digital hygrometer as they seem to be more accurate. It is more ideal to maintain certain temp and humidity ranges as it gives these frogs the environment the really need for proper developement and growth. Their ideal humidity is 70 to 80% and the human eye or bady cannot accurately measure humidity levels just by sight or touch. There is a reason why when buying and careing for these frogs that it says a tempreture gauge and hygrometer are required to measure the levels within the enclosure. There are several of us experianced owners and not to mention breeders that will tell you this.

    You say they don't seem to work and they'll end up on your floor. These devices are supposed to remain inside the enclosure with your frog. You don't take them out and then every now and then place it in for a reading. That doesn't give a very accurate reading and it could be too late by the time you realize its too hot in the enclosure or way too dry. Touch and sight don't measure accurately. I realize thing have been fine so far but you are taking risks in this method. And you should never have to open the tank to let humidity out. You can't read how humid it is in the tank so how do you know its to humid. They are tropical and love very humid environments. Without proper humidity levels they can develope problems later on. I'm trying to help.
    There's no way the humidity is 60%, the substrate is always damp, and I mist every other day. I don't know exactly what it is, but it's definitely not too low.

    I mean I'll look into getting one, but they are so expensive and I know I won't need it.

    Also does everyone here check their frogs all the time then? I mean mine live in my room with me, ok they share a thermometer but I'm always (probably at least 20 times a day) checking the heat mats, making sure they are on and not too hot.

    This frog got stressed out with it being too humid, he didn't eat, he didn't bury. As soon as I lowered it he is burying and eating, someone on my other forum said they can sometimes get stressed out when it's too humid, which is what my frog did, poor guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by LizardMama View Post
    Could you frog be burying her poos? When mine was alive I'd find him sit right on top of it and sometimes his stools would be buried underneath him.
    Yeah she could be, would explain why all of a sudden

  18. #37
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Maybe something else to note, mine are Cranwells, not Ornates, so need a bit less humidity.

    I also have a Surinam horned frog and he is kept very damp, I over flow his water and soak the substrate daily/ mist.

  19. #38
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by vivalabam View Post
    Maybe something else to note, mine are Cranwells, not Ornates, so need a bit less humidity.

    I also have a Surinam horned frog and he is kept very damp, I over flow his water and soak the substrate daily/ mist.
    They won't eat if its too hot either. I've had many a thermometer fail and not read correctly. The analog ones wear out quickly. I also have Cranwellis not Ornatas. I will say CONGRATS on the Amazonian. How well does he/she eat for you? When you opened the tank you let heat and humidity out. It could very well as easily have been the cooler temp that sparked the frog to eat just as much as the humidity. They usually will eat with a couple degree drop in temp. I've never had an issue with them not eating with high humidity so I don't believe that's the issue. Its a good idea to have individual gauges for each frog both temp and hygrometer because it keeps you from disturbing them when they sleep and causing stress from making noise and reaching in the tank to check every few hours. Trust me its better and easier. Any disturbance no mater how brief or small can stress them out.


  20. #39
    vivalabam
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    They won't eat if its too hot either. I've had many a thermometer fail and not read correctly. The analog ones wear out quickly. I also have Cranwellis not Ornatas. I will say CONGRATS on the Amazonian. How well does he/she eat for you? When you opened the tank you let heat and humidity out. It could very well as easily have been the cooler temp that sparked the frog to eat just as much as the humidity. They usually will eat with a couple degree drop in temp. I've never had an issue with them not eating with high humidity so I don't believe that's the issue. Its a good idea to have individual gauges for each frog both temp and hygrometer because it keeps you from disturbing them when they sleep and causing stress from making noise and reaching in the tank to check every few hours. Trust me its better and easier. Any disturbance no mater how brief or small can stress them out.
    Got him cheap as well! Gorgeous little frog, wild caught so I unfortunately don't get too see a lot of him, just a pretty little head popping out sometimes! He seems to eat ok, won't touch locusts, but will eat crickets, only if they are running round though, he won't tong feed. I tend to just leave him too it, there's no furnishings (will add some, just want to make sure he eats) and the crickets do go missing. I've had him a couple of months now, got a japanese apple as well which is apparently some kind of cross between frogs?

    Here he is!

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    I use cheap plastic tanks, they all have big holes in the top so I just dip the end into each tank, have a hole for cool end and hole for hot end. :P Never even have to open the lid. ^_^

  21. #40
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm new and having issues!

    Looks to be a beautiful Pac. Yeah you have to watch wild caught Cornutas they tend to not adapt well to captivity. Really have to keep all stress to a minimum for sure. Atleast you don't have to open the containers. I believe the apple to be a different Cranwelli Morph that is man made.


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