Sub-adult fantasy frog flipping onto back, not feeding

Why do you have him on paper towels? He needs to be on coco fiber substrate. Him flipping on his back is a sign of severe stress and the fact that he is flattening out seems like he wants to burrow but there is no place to burrow? Also force feeding should only be used as a last resort because it is very stressful on the frog. I would remove the paper towels and add some moist (but not soaking wet) coconut fiber bedding such as plantation soil or bed a beast. Cover 3 sides of the enclosure with dark colored construction paper or posterboard so that he feels more secure. Place a couple of food items in the tank and leave him be for a little while.

To clearify Sunshines responce. Flipping over is a sign of severe stress. Usually they can right themselves though. Theflattening out is not uncommon in Pacman frogs. A lot of the time they press themselves to the soil to absorb water and don't always hold a high posture. Fear will also be a reason his posture is flattened. The will hunch down like this in responce to fear. If you suspect disease or illness it would be perfectly acceptable for SkeletalFrog to place the frog on a paper towel substrate while treating the frog. That being said though I don't believe this is the case. I believe your frog is stressed for some unknown reason. Fantacy frogs are severely prone to stress and loss of appetite due to it. C. Cornuta which is a half parent to this mix bred frog is also just as prone. Covereing 3 sides of the enclosure is a good idea.if you haven't already done so. Temps for babies and juvies should top out at 82 and humidity should be high at 75 to 80% and maintained most of the time that way. Night time temps should be at 78 and kept there. Also you may be getting drafts into the enclosure due to your heat element being high above the enclosure. Try keeping the temps in this range. Force feed I only if necissary.

Keep us posted on any changes.

Thanks Grif & Sherry!

I've moved him back over to cocofiber, and covered the tank completely, so hopefully he'll be less stressed. I'll update in a bit, once I know how well he's responding.

You are welcome! Looking forward to an update! He is an adorable frog!!

You're welcome. Keep us posted. He is. As Sherry said very adorable.

What size crickets are you feeding, and can you try one size up? If you're feeding full grown crickets, do you have access to dubia roaches/nymphs (which are larger)? When I first got Trevor, he was only a little larger than a quarter, but the small crickets never elicited a feeding response from him. After nearly three weeks of no eating, I tried a full grown cricket, and he took it immediately. I know it's not good to feed larger-than-recommended prey, but sometimes it will trigger a feeding response, and it's better than force-feeding. Even now, mine will ignore crickets and smaller roach nymphs until he gets very hungry; I think they feel like the small prey isn't worth the energy it would take to eat it sometimes.

Also, I've found that putting mine in his water dish will get him to feed almost immediately, as it elevates him from the rest of the cage, and lets him 'stalk' the prey from what he feels is a somewhat sheltered place. This might not be a good idea for yours right now though, since handling of any sort can stress out a frog that feels nervous with humans messing around in its tank. Mine's a cranwelli, so not as easily stressed as a fantasy frog.
Misting right after dropping food in also seems to make them more alert and more likely to strike.

Unless you see something going wrong that you absolutely have to go in and fix, I'd recommend doing what Grif said with covering three sides of the cage, and also placing the cage somewhere without much activity. Don't touch the frog or spend too much time near the cage for a few days, and only open the cage to mist and drop food in. It sounds like your frog is extremely stressed, and even though it's difficult, just leaving them alone as much as possible is one of the best ways to help with that.

Good luck!

Sorry you and frog are going through this and hope it recovers soon. Seem you got good advice already and agree a stressed out frog needs to calm down in order to get better. Good luck!

Originally Posted by DVirginiana

What size crickets are you feeding, and can you try one size up? If you're feeding full grown crickets, do you have access to dubia roaches/nymphs (which are larger)? When I first got Trevor, he was only a little larger than a quarter, but the small crickets never elicited a feeding response from him. After nearly three weeks of no eating, I tried a full grown cricket, and he took it immediately. I know it's not good to feed larger-than-recommended prey, but sometimes it will trigger a feeding response, and it's better than force-feeding. Even now, mine will ignore crickets and smaller roach nymphs until he gets very hungry; I think they feel like the small prey isn't worth the energy it would take to eat it sometimes.

Also, I've found that putting mine in his water dish will get him to feed almost immediately, as it elevates him from the rest of the cage, and lets him 'stalk' the prey from what he feels is a somewhat sheltered place. This might not be a good idea for yours right now though, since handling of any sort can stress out a frog that feels nervous with humans messing around in its tank. Mine's a cranwelli, so not as easily stressed as a fantasy frog.
Misting right after dropping food in also seems to make them more alert and more likely to strike.

Unless you see something going wrong that you absolutely have to go in and fix, I'd recommend doing what Grif said with covering three sides of the cage, and also placing the cage somewhere without much activity. Don't touch the frog or spend too much time near the cage for a few days, and only open the cage to mist and drop food in. It sounds like your frog is extremely stressed, and even though it's difficult, just leaving them alone as much as possible is one of the best ways to help with that.

Good luck!

So far, I've been feeding him exclusively adult crickets, but I'll give him a shot with earthworms and dubias if those don't work.

Right now he's completely covered, and his usual room is extremely low-traffic (it's a dedicated warm-room for various tropical herps, so it's too hot to stay in comfortably). He's burrowed, and I'll give him a few days before popping some crickets in.

Originally Posted by SkeletalFrog

So far, I've been feeding him exclusively adult crickets, but I'll give him a shot with earthworms and dubias if those don't work.

Right now he's completely covered, and his usual room is extremely low-traffic (it's a dedicated warm-room for various tropical herps, so it's too hot to stay in comfortably). He's burrowed, and I'll give him a few days before popping some crickets in.

I need a room for that. Right now it's just... my room. And that gets uncomfortable really quickly.

Good luck getting him eating again!

So, update time -

Apparently the fundamental laws of physics and thermodynamics do not apply to frogs. In the past two weeks, he's eaten 5 crickets, but has gained over 50% of his weight (21 to 34 grams). I know it's probably mostly water, but it's a pretty impressive mass difference.

I'll be trying him with dubias today (I found a local supplier, since all the delivery places won't ship in this cold).

Originally Posted by SkeletalFrog

So, update time -

Apparently the fundamental laws of physics and thermodynamics do not apply to frogs. In the past two weeks, he's eaten 5 crickets, but has gained over 50% of his weight (21 to 34 grams). I know it's probably mostly water, but it's a pretty impressive mass difference.

I'll be trying him with dubias today (I found a local supplier, since all the delivery places won't ship in this cold).

Since crickets contain almost no nutrition or calories unless gut loaded and dusted I would say it is water. Has he eaten on his own or was he force fed by you? He would seriously have to be in storage mode to gain weight from fat this way and even if that were so he wouldn't gain that much from crickets. They look really fat when well hydrated. Make sure he isn't bloated which is a sign of internal infection/parasites/or disease. I'm positive you already know that so I don't really have to say.

Good luck with Dubias and hope frog comes around. FYI I tried the new Repashy's "Meat Pie" and both my Pacman and African Bullfrog ate it. It's a powder you mix with hot water and either pour in small molds or cut it to appropriate sized chunks when it gels.

Originally Posted by Mentat

Good luck with Dubias and hope frog comes around. FYI I tried the new Repashy's "Meat Pie" and both my Pacman and African Bullfrog ate it. It's a powder you mix with hot water and either pour in small molds or cut it to appropriate sized chunks when it gels.

I might have to order some of that. Loki really likes the Pacman Food from Samurai Japan, but Grif is a little picky about it. Maybe she will like the Meat Pie food.

The Meat Pie is great and we use it to give the frogs some variety in foods.
On a side note, Fantasy Frogs are much more delicate than most other horned frogs.....they are the Divas of group in our opinion!
Every one we've had is a finicky eater, each one will only eat in private, blah,blah,blah....

Best of Luck with your frog, it's a beauty!

Good luck with your baby! My fantasy was quite shy at first, but after following everyones recommendations here, she is no longer shy And she eats like a champ. I feed mine crickets and dubias. They definitely prefer the dubias. As soon as they hit the substrate they are gone . My baby will eat cut red wiggler worms once in a while. My larger cranwelli is not so fond of them, but absolutely loves his dubias.

Keep us posted.

Well, no luck on the dubias - I put 6 in on Sunday and he's eaten none of them. So far the only thing I haven't tried is earthworms, but I don't trust local worms (Providence has VERY high lead levels in the soil) and it's too cold to ship.

Anyone have any new suggestions? Should I just keep trying with crickets and dubias until it's warm enough to ship worms, and force-feed if his weight drops? Any special tricks for inducing feeding?

Originally Posted by SkeletalFrog

Well, no luck on the dubias - I put 6 in on Sunday and he's eaten none of them. So far the only thing I haven't tried is earthworms, but I don't trust local worms (Providence has VERY high lead levels in the soil) and it's too cold to ship.

Anyone have any new suggestions? Should I just keep trying with crickets and dubias until it's warm enough to ship worms, and force-feed if his weight drops? Any special tricks for inducing feeding?

Well there is a trick for inducing hunger in Pacmans, but you'll have to monitor your little guy closely. Note that I am not an expert. This is something I've been using off and on.

He probably sences winter has set in which can make Pacman frogs stop eating or just eat less. You can try raising his temps higher than normaly accepted levels. I do this occationally for a couple hours at a time. You could try to first raise the temps to the maximum excepted level of 84 to 85 which can be fine for babies while monitored. I sometimes raise temps in excess of 86 to 87 for a couple hours at a time. I don't reccomend this often because even though in the wild they experience much hotter conditions, but in captivity we should strive for a more ideal level as you already know. I have even went to 88 once or twice. Now this was ambient enclosure air temp not hot side so the hot side of the tank will be higher probably around 90 which is why I don't reccomend this to Just anyone who's frog is not eating.

You being an experienced keeper could try this. Very close monitoring definetly needs to be done while trying this method so you can interveneif necessary. Heat is how their digestive system metabolizes food and can also spark hunger so it may work, but of course if there is some other underlying issue there is no guarantee.

Keep us posted of whatever you decide. You could just force feed him to get him through winter and do so until he feeds on his own again as well. It may be easier than what I've suggested. If you decide this method be sure there is also a way for the frog to escape the heat like deep substrate and water dish full.

Thanks, that's a nice trick to have as backup. Winter is winding down here, so I'll keep an eye on his weight and try this if he's losing too much weight and/or not eating once it's fully spring.

Originally Posted by SkeletalFrog

Thanks, that's a nice trick to have as backup. Winter is winding down here, so I'll keep an eye on his weight and try this if he's losing too much weight and/or not eating once it's fully spring.

He probably won't lose weight as long as you force feed him. You can use a seringe to feed him high calorie canned cat food. Its easy to digest and swallow. I've used it and it worked great.