Estivation Crisis....Please advise

Although I don't have experience with this frog, I found this information from the link provided below.
Quote""Remove the Budgett's frog from his water home and place him in the dry aestivation tank. He will instinctively start to burrow down to the bottom of the container, and his skin will shed and form a protective cocoon encasing his body. Aestivation will last for a couple of months, and can last as long as 9 months. ""End Quote

Hope someone with experience in this will reply.

Link to information I found on web: Budgett's Frog (Lepidobatrachus laevis) - talk to the frog

I'm no expert and have no experiance with Budgetts or estivation, but I do know that they are supposed to be pretty fat before putting down for hibernation. At this point she is probably to far underweight to do so. It may be possible to revive her from this state. I'm not too sure how when its not under normal hibernation conditions. Are theiir any Herp vets near you? Hopefully someone can help you through this and save her. I also hope that Don's link helps.

I would like to revive her out of this actually if I can, I'm just not sure on how to do that.

The care sheet that Don posted is mine. I wrote that the week I bought Bridgett. I was not impressed that there wasn't a good care sheet out there on them, and I went though every bit of information I could find on them to make that care sheet up. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of information out there on them, so it's hard to know what is right to do.

I know how to estivate them, I just don't think she is fit to do it, as this is the first time with her. I'm stressed out about it, because she looks like she is going to die on me.
My BF wants be to put her back in her tank, or at least in water. I think I will do that.
I may even give her a honey bath to see if that helps.

I have a vet that will see me, and get me what ever I need in order to help my frogs, but the problem is, that they are not experienced with frogs. So if I don't know how to fix this, chances are they won't know either. They are a "farm vet" type facility, they mostly see cows, sheep, horses, elk, etc... They have recently started to get into other types of animals, domestic pets like dogs and cats, reptiles, etc.... As far as I know, I'm their only "frog" client. I got them a copy of the Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry book, so that will help them some. I have a copy of "Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry" (veterinary text). I'm going to be doing some reading tonight.

We have another vet in town that supposed to be an "exotics" vet. I've been there twice a few years ago, and I won't go back there if I can help it. To be perfectly honest, I would rather cut my arm off then have to see that vet ever again. From what I can tell, she is not actually qualified to see reptiles and amphibians, I think she is more small animals like rodents, rabbits, etc...

I'm not confident that she will survive long unfortunately, that's why I think it might be kinder to euthanize her, unless someone else has some suggestions.

The honey bath seems to be helping loads. Her eyes are open and clear, she is more alert, and is getting quite defensive when I touch her. Her tummy is still pink.
I mixed the honey in warm water. This was my first time using it. I only just found out about the honey from the first aid page on this site.

Bridgett weights 78 grams. I'm not sure what they are supposed to weight, but in case anyone is wondering. She is about 4.5" SVL

I'm going to sanitize her tank later, and I will be giving more honey baths.

Should I try to get her to eat? Maybe tomorrow.
I can't see her wanting to eat now, she doesn’t like to be bothered much before she gets fed.

I would let her rest and feed her tomorrow. If she won't feed on her own I would try to force feed. Watch your fingers ;P. I hope the honey brings her out of it. You could also try the pedialite bath. Don knows the mixture ratio. I believe its 10 to 1. With unflavored formula.

I have used the pedialyte baths before, 1:10 sounds right to me. I also have the exoterra stuff on hand.
I am quite impressed with the honey though. I'm not sure if it was that, or the warm water, but she looks better. I'm going to check though my old aquarium supplies later and see if I still have my small submersible heaters. If not, I will check the pet shops, probably tomorrow. I think I'm going to keep her tank warmer.
I'm not happy about the tummy color. I will see if the Baytril I have on hand is still good, and will give her some of that if I can in Bath form. But I'm going to wait and see what she looks like tomorrow and maybe the next day before I give her anything like that.

I feel more optimistic about her being ok now, but I'm still apprehensive about it, as I've had some frogs in the past get ill on me, and I though that they were starting to turn around and get better, but then ended up dying when I got up the next day. So, fingers crossed that she makes it though the night

Use unflavored pedialite. Stay away from the flavored stuff, no telling what that has in it. Unflavored pedialite looks like water and has barely any taste. Drop this in warm water (mid-70s or room temp) at a 10/1 ratio (10 water, 1 pedialite, so like...10 ounces of water, one ounce of pedialite) and mix it in, then give the frog a bath for 10-20 minutes to let it soak in the nutrients.

This will at least get some nutrients into her.

I would feed her something easy to get down too like earthworms.

Originally Posted by Sandy Bear

I have used the pedialyte baths before, 1:10 sounds right to me. I also have the exoterra stuff on hand.
I am quite impressed with the honey though. I'm not sure if it was that, or the warm water, but she looks better. I'm going to check though my old aquarium supplies later and see if I still have my small submersible heaters. If not, I will check the pet shops, probably tomorrow. I think I'm going to keep her tank warmer.
I'm not happy about the tummy color. I will see if the Baytril I have on hand is still good, and will give her some of that if I can in Bath form. But I'm going to wait and see what she looks like tomorrow and maybe the next day before I give her anything like that.

I feel more optimistic about her being ok now, but I'm still apprehensive about it, as I've had some frogs in the past get ill on me, and I though that they were starting to turn around and get better, but then ended up dying when I got up the next day. So, fingers crossed that she makes it though the night

I hope she recovers. The honey baths do perk them up. They are also good for helping them poop. Its a natural source of sugar and antihystamines.gives them a boost. Ill have you and your frog in my thoughts.

Well, she's still alive

So glad to hear that! I hope she continues to get better and makes a full recovery. Keep us posted on her!

Well, Bridget is still alive, and just as stubborn as ever... she WILL NOT open her mouth. She even puts her chin down and front arms straight out to make it harder. I managed to get her mouth open about 3 times, got bit all 3 times, and was able to get the bug in her mouth once. She kept the bug in her mouth for 2 minutes, then spit it out on me. I've been fighting with her for 20 minutes, and I gave up, because I don't want to stress her out more.
I'm using a plastic gift card to try and get her mouth open. She is seriously being stubborn with this, I'm afraid if I push harder on the card I will cut up her mouth.
I have her in a quarantine tub at the moment. She really does not like being out of her cage. I know that she will eat better for me if I put her back in there. I had this issue with her when she was doing the Lamisil treatment last summer.

The up side, her tummy isn't so pink today. It's still not the right color, but that at least it is improving.

Originally Posted by Sandy Bear

Well, Bridget is still alive, and just as stubborn as ever... she WILL NOT open her mouth. She even puts her chin down and front arms straight out to make it harder. I managed to get her mouth open about 3 times, got bit all 3 times, and was able to get the bug in her mouth once. She kept the bug in her mouth for 2 minutes, then spit it out on me. I've been fighting with her for 20 minutes, and I gave up, because I don't want to stress her out more.
I'm using a plastic gift card to try and get her mouth open. She is seriously being stubborn with this, I'm afraid if I push harder on the card I will cut up her mouth.
I have her in a quarantine tub at the moment. She really does not like being out of her cage. I know that she will eat better for me if I put her back in there. I had this issue with her when she was doing the Lamisil treatment last summer.

The up side, her tummy isn't so pink today. It's still not the right color, but that at least it is improving.

I really hope she pulls through.

I found her dead this morning. Her eyes are all glazed over and she's in rigor.

Originally Posted by Sandy Bear

I found her dead this morning. Her eyes are all glazed over and she's in rigor.

I'm so sorry Sandy. I wish there were more that could have been done. You did what you could. Hopefully she passed easily and comfertably. It saddens me so much when people lose their loved ones. She's at peace now.

Im sorry Bridget passed. Id be upset if my budget frog (Rupert) had a problem. condolences aside, i wanted to offer my opinion as ive had quite a bit of good luck with Rupert and feel I may have come accross some helpful info in case you try another budget frog. After skimming through the processes' you went through im happy to LEARN that some honey or pedialite might get me out of froggie trouble in the future. Also, i feel that you should have skipped the estetation process sooner and maintained warmer water. I use an inline heater($50) with an external pump($30) that takes water from the bottom of the tank and goes through some filter floss and then back into the tank as a waterfall. this keeps my water nice and clean which allows me to feed goldfish. I know what youre thinking, "GOLFISH BAAAD" but Im very careful with them. they get acclimated properly and NONE of the water is tranfered into the tank AND I gut load them with high quality pellet food. my biggest problem tends to be that my water is too clear for Rupert to catch a fish in the daytime. I feel it was a mistake on your part to attempt to force feed Bridget. that would just be sooo stressful. I guess the best thing i think you could have done would be to maintain healthy water through water changes, keep the water warm with an inline heater(or protected submersible heater) so the frog never hibernates, and leave them with plenty of tasty gutloaded fish and bugs (i prefer crickets). Im sorry i wasnt able to help with this advice sooner. Im also sorry for this haphazard comment(im sure its kindof all over the place) I just joined and am looking forward to reading some nice frog stories and seeing some cool pics. Im currently renovating my 30 gallon so maybe ill have pics soon too best wishes
Ace

Hi Ace! Thank you for commenting.

I do plan on getting another Budgett's frog in the future, or a few of them. Next time I do, I plan on having a Canister Filter attached to the tank. I will get the tank drilled to accommodate a Fluval 105 or 205, or if the new '06 model is out, then one of those. These filters cost around $100-150. There is a plumbing specialty shop that has sells all the extra bits and pieces to do this, which will be an extra $40-60. Believe me, "next time" the tank will be set up better.

I have never seen or heard of an in-line heater before. So I looked it up. They look very interesting, and I will inquire at the pet shop if they can get those in. The model I checked out was by Hydor, and I think I've seen a few Hydor products at the pet shop.

I am not in the habit of force feeding any of my frogs, but I felt that she was emaciated and needed to eat something. It's been my understanding that the only time force feeding is acceptable is when it is a "last ditch effort" in order to save the frogs life.
I should have just put her back in her tank and tried to have fed her that way, it may have gone better, but you know what they say, hind-sight is 20/20 .

I try to only feed feeders that I breed at home. I bought a frog a couple of years ago and she was badly sick with parasites, she is all better now, but I worry that they can get sick from contaminated food sources, and I feel more comfortable knowing where their food is coming from and what their food has been eating. I do still buy crickets as I have a few fussy animals that won't eat anything but crickets. This fall I started a colony of "pill bugs". I think I managed to find about 8 bugs all together, but I have a bunch of tiny little babies running around their bin. It will probably be two years before I have a large enough colony though to start feeding them out.

I am re-doing Bridget's tank for my Leopard Frogs. I got some "frog-poles" from one of the pet shops in town this summer, they came in with their goldfish order.

I am interested to know about your Rupert. Is he full size? Is he sexed? And what is his weight? It is always wonderful to hear "nice" frog stories, as there are so many sad ones. You should take some progress pictures of your tank and post those. I always like posts like that, the ones that teach you new building techniques.

sooo I happen to have an extra Eheim 2217 classic if youd like it. Its just been sitting here. I own an aquarium service company so I often find myself with extra "things". Eheim is a much better quality product than fluval(no affense if youre partial I was keeping it, waiting for a clients filter to break down but they never do! I guess thats a good thing but let me know if youd like it.
As for drilling, I usually drill my own holes with a Dremel and diamond bit and a nice flow of cool water in the bath tub. I drill a bunch of holes after marking the size for the appropriate bulkhead and when the center falls out, i grind the circle smooth with a stone sanding bit. I find it fun, but LOUD, so earplugs may be needed
The heaterI have is a hydor. I got it from foster and smith for 50 bucks. it works great so far so id recomend them(especially since noone else makes them yet
I love the idea of breeding food animals at home but its just too much for me. I have 2 reef aquariums and Ruperts tank.
As for Rupert, Im still somewhat new with him. I used to have maybe 10 different arrow frogs back in the day and couldnt help but take Rupert home when I saw his pathetic little legs sticking out of what seemed to be just a mouth! these things are so cool!! Ive always been pretty good with animals and seem to be doing well with him so far. I dont know how to sex him but i guess Ill study a bit to find out how Ill have to take some pictures. Ive hit such a road block as to what to do with his tank. being in the aquarium industry and being very handy. i can do just about ANYTHING to it so the possibilities are endless, which is why i have the problem to begin with! Im working on how to make a stoney backround with real stone. ill need to figure out if limestone will make the water too acidic. maybe i should take a pic of this drawing i just drew up and see some opinions. hmmm

btw hes just about 100 grams hes a pretty fat little froggle

At the moment, I am partial to the Fluval Filters. We have two of the 405 models, a 105 and an FX5. The FX5 is on our South American Cichlid/Arowana tank and one of the 405's is on my work tank. The other 405 is not being used at the moment, and the 105 is for my dart frog tank (D.auratus) that is sitting in pieces waiting to be assembled. Our local pet shop doesn't carry Eheim products for whatever reason, but it's something that I would look into getting some day when our Fluvals die on us.

You should do something with that extra filter! Get some of those Suriname Toads, "Pipa pipa". They are an aquatic frog, and very unusual looking, they are flat, have long fingers and have a prominent "T" mark across their chest. They basically look like they have been run over and had an autopsy done and the coroner stitched them back up. Very neat aquatic frog, I would love to have some of those in my collection one day.

When I do go about drilling the tanks, the first one I am going to get done at a glass cutter in town. They charge around $12 a 1" hole, but it depends on the size. I checked out some drill bits at our local Home Depot, and they had one or two diamond drill bits (larger ones anyways), and I think that they started at $50 each for about a 1" size.
I'm not exactly sure what size I need, so that's why I'm going to get it done there for at least the first one.